SUMMARY KEYWORDS
mediator, people, lemon, mediation, conversations, judge, courts, listening, relationships, decisions, risk, elizabeth, build, reckon, met, big, mediate, girls, hear, asked
SPEAKERS
Elizabeth Franz & Noah Scott
Podcast Link: thebigpossible.com
Noah Scott:
Hey, you’re listening to the big possible show. With your host, Noah Scott, it’s time to break through the limits and achieve all you can imagine all you can imagine.
Noah Scott:
Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Big possible show. This is your host Noah Scott signing on with Elizabeth France. Elizabeth is a mediator she has been one for the past 10 years. She guides people through their most impactful conversations. Elizabeth focuses on collective action, collaborative decision making and communication that builds relationships. She sees these as the key ingredients to build a future that meets all of our needs. Her company’s core commitments are acceptance, consent and collaboration. She believes that weaving these commitments into everything we do and practicing what she preaches is taking one step forward at a time. Welcome to the show. Elizabeth, how are you?
Elizabeth Franz 01:07
Thanks for having me. No, I’m doing good. How are you?
Noah Scott:
Fantastic. Yes, I’m just fired up to chat about I love I love just into personal connection conversation, this is what I’m all about. So I can’t wait to dive into some of the good stuff. But before that, do you want to share a little bit about yourself in it for our listeners, maybe just what you would say is your superpower that thing that you’ve honed through the years that it’s just something that no one else can do?
Elizabeth Franz 01:39
I’m really good at getting out of the way. And what I mean by that is, I trust that people know what’s best for them and their relationships. And it is a skill and discipline to hold space for that and not impose myself.
Noah Scott:
Beautiful, yes, it’s so important to to let people be themselves and trust. That’s it’s a, it’s a, it’s a big part of communication. So glad that you brought that up. And so, throughout your journey of becoming an expert mediator, I’d love to hear a story of a time that you took the biggest risk of your life, because this is the big possible show. And we’re all about celebrating, facing the unknown and going for it.
Elizabeth Franz 02:26
I don’t think it’s just one time, I’ve come back to bet on myself and bet on mediation. And it’s been a long journey of taking that risk over and over and over again. And the first time I took that risk was when I decided to not pursue law and become an attorney and instead become a mediator. The second time I took that risk was when I devoted a lot of time that I didn’t really have to volunteer mediating a Baltimore City. And more recently, I took that risk when I stopped everything I was doing and took on humans mediate full time as a business, and as a way to build a parallel system to the courts so that more people have access to the services that support them in those impactful conversations.
Noah Scott:
Wow. And just to get a little deeper, what what do you think was going through your head at the time that you’re taking these risks? Like, do you want to take us to one of those moments in particular, and just tell me like, you know, what were the stakes involved? What was what were the fears you were facing?
Elizabeth Franz 03:26
I think that when the stakes are really high for you personally, and for, you know, our collective humanity, that’s when you kind of have no choice but to take the risk. And it was an easy choice to make, it was the consequences that I had to cope with and had to adapt to and figure out how to live with. And for me, the stakes were, you know, personal, I had to really let go of an entire field that idealized so I love the law. I love the courts. I was in mock trial for four years, I was an incredibly passionate mock trial. And I love being in court. I admired my coaches who were judges and attorneys. And when I took my first mediation training, it was really hard to let go that what I thought was the path forward, actually was not the path forward and also wasn’t good for me. And I had to really reckon with myself. Like why was I so into court? Well, because I could fight people. Because I could impose myself as much as I wanted. And I could use the threat of state violence to get what I wanted. And that was really fun for a while. But when I had to reckon with that, I’m like, wait a second, that isn’t how I want to live my life. That isn’t what I want for the future. And this system that I glorified and adored in my high school years, turns out to actually be violent and not meeting people’s needs and mediation made me have to reckon with that and give up you know, this very clear it’s a very clean path to becoming Attorney, right? You go to law school, there’s all of this prestige that comes that my family would have been very proud and happy. And the path to becoming a mediator I’ve had to build myself. And that wasn’t that didn’t come with accolades, it didn’t come with the certainty. And so when I was at that crosswords to choose mediation over a neatly laid out path that comes with prestige and money, I had to really reckon with my personal values. And I had to reckon with what happened to me as a teenager that made me need to fight so badly what made me what made the power so appealing, and I had to really heal myself. And wreck and again, just let go of something that I held so dear for so long.
Noah Scott:
Wow, that’s so beautiful. And thank you for for sharing that. And, you know, it touches on something that’s really a big trend that I see with with a lot of the guests that are that are here, we because so often, when the mission becomes bigger than just yourself, and just the things that you think are designed for your personal safety, suddenly there’s this fuel that enables us to do the hard things. And I’d like to hear more about what that because you touched on this about, you know, hey, this is this is something away that you know, this is a mission that’s bigger than, than me that I’m that I’m a part of, I’d like to hear kind of more depth around what you what you feel is that mission and how you’re impacting humanity in a positive way.
Elizabeth Franz 06:33
Yeah, I think, can I indulge you with a quick summary because I think it really encapsulate encapsulates everything. So it’s called the lemon dilemma, I think, originally, it was called the orange dilemma. And it was brought into being or my attention by a woman from the past, who is I think, just a housewife, or I guess, just a housewife, was a housewife, which is a job in itself. And she has a story, there’s two little girls in the kitchen, and they’re fighting over the last lemon. And it’s really bad like she comes in, she has to do something about it. And what do you think is the thing that she does? What would you guess someone in that situation would do?
Noah Scott:
Split the limit in half?
Elizabeth Franz 07:16
You know, so that is, by far the most common answer, let’s split the limit in half. And another way you could do it, and I’ll shorten this because we don’t have a lot of time, is you could have both girls just not get the lemon, no one gets it. You could have the bait for it. Let’s compete for the lemon. Right? Who didn’t scream the loudest you get the lemon. And you could just be like what lemon we don’t have a lemon and avoid this situation entirely. Or what we do in mediation. And what really transformed that situation for me is she asked both girls, what do you want the lemon for? And one girl says, Well, I’m decorating this cake, and I really need the lemon zest. And the other girl says, Well, I’m so thirsty, I really want to make lemonade. And by just asking, we figure out that one, lemon is plenty, right? And everyone can get all their needs met. And in every other scenario, somebody wins, somebody loses in splitting the lemon, you get half this estimate and half the juice you need. And the real winner is the trash because it gets half a lemon. But when we actually ask the question, you know, and trust people there, they both want this lemon for a reason. And you know, what is it, we actually open up the door to having Win Win solutions to meet everyone’s needs, which gets us out of that either or thinking and into both and thinking and both girls get their needs met?
Noah Scott:
That is such a beautiful story. And I just love. I love the implications of it. Because I really believe that great questions really do pull out ways of thinking that we haven’t actually touched on before. It’s, it’s brilliant. So with that is, do you want to share a little bit more about how your process of mediation is helping, like, what would be the dream scenario for you.
Elizabeth Franz 09:12
Kim scenario, dream scenario is that we have a parallel system where people have access to mediation the same way they have access to the court. I would say maybe because of improvements, because I don’t think people actually have access to justice or access to dispute resolution. I want to see mediators, I want to see people saying instead of having mom tell you who gets the lemon and forcing you to split it in half, actually telling them and actually being asked, What do you need? Right. And I think the courts are great at some things. I don’t want to fight them. This isn’t an either or either the courts or mediation it’s a both and we both need the courts for certain things and we need mediation for others and for too long. Our needs and asking people, What do you really mean here has just not happened. And so I want to see, you know, a mediation program in every county in every place in the US every place in the world, where if you’re in any situation where you’re in collaboration or in a relationship with someone or harm has been done, that you have an option to go to a mediator, and actually ask for what you need, and actually collaborate with the person and build that connection or relationship, because our communities are only as strong as the relationships that make them. And courts destroy relationships, often. Sometimes they build them, I’m not saying they’re all bad. But you know, you see relationships go to mediation, a go to court, and they leave hating each other and never talking to each other again. Whereas in mediation, even if they hate each other, and ever want to talk to each other, again, they’re able to take accountability and autonomy and say, I really don’t want to talk to you anymore. And I really need this boundary. And that’s far more empowering than a judge saying, you can’t talk to this person anymore. And I’m making a ruling on that, and the police will arrest you, if you call them versus that honest, real conversation that’s like, hey, I really need space, or you know, what I really need you to call me more often, you know, all of those are valid in mediation, where the courts are limited to precedent, they’re only going to rule on things that have already been cases where they’re only going to rule on things they have jurisdiction over, and mediation saying, no one, but you should have jurisdiction over your relationships. So what do you want to do in this situation in this relationship that you’re in?
Noah Scott:
Wow, that’s, yeah, that’s a beautiful, beautiful vision. And, you know, I really think that the more we keep talking about it, the more that impact will trickle out, for sure. And with that, you know, there’s a lot of cases where outside of the courtroom outside of an official mediator, we can employ a lot of these tactics for better conversation. You know, a lot of the listeners I have are entrepreneurs, they’re their leaders, innovators, or even people just working on teams, you know? And with that, what have you found to be some things that people can do, to have better conversations and to come to better agreements, even without having to go hire a mediator?
Elizabeth Franz 12:18
Yeah. So I, I’m gonna start with listening. We all think we’re listening. But there’s listening to respond, and there’s listening to understand. So listening to respond is you’re talking and I’m thinking about what I’m going to say to you. And listen, to understand is really taking in what you’re saying, reflecting it back to you and making sure that I heard what you intended me to hear, I really understand. And that requires slowing down to conversations. The first tip is always slow down the conversation, asked for a moment, take a breath, slow down, and then make sure that you’re listening to understand and that requires repeating back what you heard and asking, Did I hear what you meant to say? Do I understand what you’re saying? And letting that person tell you honestly, if you did or not, and accepting the answer, and then trying again, if you didn’t, and moving forward, if you did,
Noah Scott:
absolutely, beautifully said, and, you know, one of the other things that I love to, you know, listen to you from my guests, is really what they find the meaning of happiness is because so often, we’re caught up in success and chasing and achieving, that we actually forget to really understand why we’re here and what we’re what we’re here for. And so for you, what do you think the what do you think happiness comes from?
Elizabeth Franz 13:41
I think it’s letting go of the idea that happiness is the goal. And just being I think I’m most satisfied, I’m most alive by most myself when I am with what is present. And even though things are sad, like, I’m very present to that we’re in a pandemic. And it’s really tragic. How many human lives have been lost and how much suffering has been caused by this. That’s not a happy thought. But I’m authentic, I’m in reality, and I’m being as a part of humanity that is connected and saying, I’m grieving and I’m sad about what’s happened. And that to me is better than forcing happiness or ignoring things that are going on because then you’re not in reality, and you’re not being what you are, which is, you know, a very integral part of this ecosystem of this planet of our species and to be disconnected and to kind of have that toxic positivity is actually being disconnected and being dead inside and I don’t want to do that.
Noah Scott:
Absolutely. Okay. So as we’re working towards towards wrapping up, I’d like to ask the question I asked every guest and and this is really about decision making because I love the this concept that our dreams are ultimately built on actions. But then the actions that we make every day are a byproduct of the decisions that we make. And so do you have a decision making framework or a mental model that you found to be particularly helpful?
Elizabeth Franz 15:16
Yeah. So it comes down to listening to my body. And when I’m irritated or fed up or bored, I asked like, did I sleep? Did I eat? Am I thirsty? When was the last time I moved? And that is the first decision I make before anything else. Because I think it’s, it’s humbling. But it’s also real to say that we’re physical beings, and how we, how we take care of our bodies and what our physical needs are dictate a lot of other things. But there’s, there’s an arrogance to assume that you can push past it and pretend you’re not. And there’s a great study that happened in Israel, where they looked at the sentencing that judges put down on people based on how close they were to eating lunch. And it turns out, you get harsher sentences when you have a hungry judge, and you get off later when your judge is fed. And so I think that’s a perfect example of even that people are supposed to be the most impartial that we put on a pedestal on society, they have bodies, and they’re going to make decisions based on that. So if all my decisions could be improved by meeting my bodily needs, those were that’s where I’m gonna start. And I think I am less impulsive, I make better decisions. And I take care of myself. All those things by just listening to my body and letting my body tell me what it needs first.
16:40
Wow, absolutely don’t trust a hungry judge. Yeah, that’s so powerful. So let’s bid how do we how do we stay in touch with you? How do we support you and follow all of your cool projects?
Elizabeth Franz 16:55
Thanks. Well, first thing, go to my website, humans mediate.com. Humans with a Z. And you can get a 15 minute call with me. I always like to connect with people and no strings attached. Every time you choose to mediate. That’s a way to show with your dollars and your time that you would prefer mediation over having a judge dictate things to you. And anyone who wants to become a mediator can connect with me and I’m training people right now at CU Boulder. I’ve trained a couple of mediators myself, and we’re trying to just kind of elevate the field, be professional mediators and bring this system to reality. And we need people to do that. So connect, go to my website, it doesn’t meet you if this is something you want to support.
Noah Scott:
There we have it. epic, epic, thank you so much for sharing your story. And all of this is so powerful, and even if if our listeners is doing even 10% of those of those tactics, I mean, we’re gonna have some way better conversations. So yes, yeah. Cool. Thank you, Elizabeth.
Noah Scott:
That’s it for this episode of The Big possible show. This is Noah Scott, signing out to let you know, I appreciate you for being here. Of course, if you enjoyed the episode and want to share some feedback, visit apple and drop a review. That review will help other people find the show and it also gives me a signal that hey, people are out there listening. With that. Made the rest of your day be filled with epic adventures. And I’ll see you right here for the next episode.
